As Labour are too chicken, the Libertarian Party are a joke who cannot even field a candidate in a by-election specifically on liberty issues and the Lib Dems back a hang 'em, flog 'em, opposer of gay rights Tory candidate called David Davis, then that only leaves one national party who are standing on a true-ish liberal platform - and that is the Green party. Vote Green if you want to make a point on detention with charge - even one day is too many - remember David Davis supports 28 days detention without charge.
More here from pickled politics.
re. the Libertarian Party's decision not to stand:
ReplyDeleteHere is the explanation.
"Our party heartily applauds Mr Davis' principled stance, and we have already offered his campaign whatever support that it may need. Whilst the Libertarian Party has fundamental differences of opinion with the Conservative Party, the constant and growing erosion of our civil liberties is an issue of such grave importance that it transcends petty party politics." - Patrick Vessey
Ian: So the LP have no problem with 28 days detention with charge? No problem with hanging? No problem with opposing gay rights? Cos that is what they are backing in David Davis. On this showing you might as well all join the Tory party.
ReplyDeleteAccording to Devil's Kitchen - the LP wanted to put up a candidate but just couldn't get the bodies on the ground and lack the funds. If that is the case it doesn't bode well for the LP's future does it?
obviously that is meant to say 'without charge'.
ReplyDeleteAccording to Devil's Kitchen - the LP wanted to put up a candidate but just couldn't get the bodies on the ground and lack the funds.
ReplyDeleteThe LP was behind Davis from the beginning (the press release was put out a matter of hours after Davis' announcement), it never considered putting up a candidate.
You're thinking of Henley-on-Thames. And I don't agree that it "doesn't bode well for the LP's future" that we didn't stand in Henley, just that the party needs to attract a larger member base before it begins standing in elections.
Ian: So the LP have no problem with 28 days detention without charge? Some Libertarians they are!!
ReplyDeleteNeil,
ReplyDeleteYou should really try to understand that wanting to ensure that everyone charged with a crime should get a fair trial and when found guilty punishing them harshly is not being inconsistent.
Indeed the fact that he wants as fair a trial as possible before carrying out the death penalty is rather comforting, in a perverse way.
Surely this is a far better approach than those who want to lock people up with out charge for 6 weeks and then deny them the opportunity to know who their accusers are when they are eventually brought to trial.
PS I don't support the death penalty and don't want to have a debate on its merits.
GS: David Davis voted to lock people up for 28 days WITHOUT CHARGE. He is no libertarian.
ReplyDeleteGood call. Going by the Henley results, the Greens will come second in H&H.
ReplyDeleteAnd yes, the Greens have got the right approach to legalising cannabis & prostitution; are no doubt pretty relaxed about gay people; I doubt they'd support the death penalty; and they support LVT and Citizen's Income etc etc.
Good stuff so far.
BUT ...
... apart from that they are totally economically and socially authoritarian re all this recycling and they love meddling and red tape and they are totally anti-car and against fox-hunting, smoking in pub's etc. So I doubt I'd ever vote for them again.
Unless neither UKIP nor UKLP were standing, of course.
"Totally anti-car"?
ReplyDeleteSounds good to me!
Here is my latest comment on the by-election:
http://peezedtee.blogspot.com/2008/06/by-election-news.html
Neil,
ReplyDeleteSo DD has changed his mind - a sinner who repents and all that.
Give me somone who considers the issues and changes there mind than somone who sticks doggedly to party policy on issues like this, anytime.
Actually, TGS, Neil is right here. David Davis hasn't changed his mind on 28 day detention without charge - he posted on his campaign blog a week ago that he stands by his support for 28 day detention, as a necessary evil, but takes a clear "not a day more" line.
ReplyDeleteI personally think that 28 days is too long also, and do think that Neil has a point regarding Davis' patchy record on other civil liberties issues, particularly Section 28 and also his failure to vote for a transparent parliament. He is however strong and consistent on the database state.
I think the difficulty here has arisen because at the time of the LPUK announcement it was not expected that Labour would fail to stand against Davis. That would have made it the "28 days and not a day more vs 42 days going on for 90" 'referendum' that was anticipated at the time. That made sense to me and to the LPUK's leaders.
The final consideration is that the H&H by-election has become something of a circus, with 25 candidates standing including conspiracist David Icke and anti-government waste campaigner David Craig (author of Squandered). The LPUK, as a brand new party, would have spent £500 they were unlikely to get back plus other resources in exchange for very little publicity.
I have stated, until I am fucking blue in the face, that if we are going to defend civil liberties against the authoritarian twats in this government, we will have to make alliances with people whose views we don't share.
ReplyDeleteHence, I, as a Lib Dem, would stand on a platform with Davis... as I have admired his libertarianism ever since he stated his opposition to Howard over ID cards.
We do not have enough people who are fully socially liberal to fight this corner, just like the anti-war forces had to be united... & to the extent to which they weren't united, were ineffecrive. I'm against 28 days, but we need to make a force to halt any further expansion of the shyte before we can repeal it.
I think there's a lot to be said for environmentalism, something (but not so much) for the Green Party, & I agree with cannabis & prostitution (& would also permit law-abiding citizens to carry weapons, which I know isn't Lib Dem policy but still...) but in the end I am for Davis, whatever the usual crowd might say in objection.
At this stage, I really am preferring Cameron to Brown, to the extent where it's almost embarassing.
PS-
I don't like the Green Party because they are far-left, because they seem more concerned about militant leftism than the environment (thus alienating conservative greens, of whom there are many... which is why Cameron has his "vote blue, go green" business, etc etc), & because I still haven't forgiven the cunts for allying with Leaveinshame in the London mayoral elections, when surely it's liberalism & the Lib Dem party that genuine environmentalists would pin their hopes to... though maybe fuckers like the Green Party aren't environmentalists at all.
Ian,
ReplyDeleteSo DD hasn't changed his mind on 28 days, so what? That doesn't make him wrong on 42 days. If it did then nobody could argue against any increase in detention without trial for any period. If you are for 42 days is it then unnacceptable to be against 56 days? If this is the case we can never argue against any diktat from Govt.
Section 28 would be a classic discussion now, what with all the new child protection laws and need for CRB checks. It would be intersting to see how "homosexual rights to prosleytise" might play out now. He might find a few odd balls who are aginst him now working with him on the "enemey's enemy" principle. As it happens I would be against him, but that doesn't mean he isn't right on 42 days and the general drift to an authoritarian state.
LPUK acted in haste and can now repent at leisure. They are a new party and will get over it. They may even turn out to be more thoughtful in future, a useful polical trait (which wouldn't go down too badly in the other parties)
It is becoming apparent that DD is being left high and dry in this debate, but that isn't his fault, it is the fault of the Labour Party to be prepared to engage in an energetic debate. For this they will reap their just deserves, as they have in Henly.