TT - "It wasn't the media that ordered the invasion of Iraq".
I wouldn't be so sure about that. Didn't Murdoch and Dacre both meet with Blair in the weeks running up to the invasion. And Murdoch threw his full media empire into getting Bush elected.
jkitleft is right to castigate the agenda of the press. But he does it in a typically tribal Labourite fashion. The media isn't bad because it attacks Labour. It is bad because its ownership promotes a political agenda that suits the interests of the elite. For a long time, Labour was very happy to use that support to promote its own authoritarian right wing agenda. Well if you sleep with rats you are going to get fleas. And by the way, Murdoch did not make Blair do anything that he didn't already want to do. It simply supported his war with jingoistic copy. The fault for the Iraq disaster remains solely with the Labour party for failing to have the guts to stand up to Blair.
the Iraq and Afghan wars are the defining issues of the Labour government that many waited 18 years for under the tories.
You can go on about some of your tinkering law changes, deny the overtly authoritarian tendencies of your party, blame the media, whatever. As far as this latter goes, you live by the sword, now you're skewered. Labour sold its soul to Mephistopheles, and now he's coming to collect.
Iraq and Afghanistan would have happened under a Tory government - indeed they would have been even more enthusiastic supporters of Bush and will be of McCain if he is elected and invades Iran.
Blair made a significant error of judgement, but virtually everyone on the Right (and most of public opinion) supported the initial invasion of both these countries, certainly the main opposition came from the Left and from within the Labour party itself. So don't blame the Left!
Ian: The cost of the BBC is 23% of the total cost of all television services transmitted in the UK. Yet BBC television wins 37% of the total television audience. So the consumer is paying much less per hour for the BBC than for other types of television.
the tories may well have gone along with the wars of George Bush, because there's hardly a gnat's cock between tory and labour governments. That's why I don't support either.
"Blair made a significant error of judgement"
"don't blame the Left!"
Firstly, the left sustained him in power, if through nothing else by their support of the false left/right paradigm, which keeps them loyal to something - the left - which is now no more than a posture - it doesn't merit the term ideology!
Secondly, Blair did not act alone.
Thirdly, this is a matter of the utmost seriousness. The killing of hundreds of thousands of people cannot be swept under the carpet. The mark of Cain is on this government. This is why your party is melting away, bankrupt financially and morally.
TT: As a lot more Labour MPs (139) voted against Iraq than Tory MPs (16) - shouldn't you be supporting Labour not the Tories? The more Tories we get the more gung-ho support of right-wing America and the possible invasion of Iran will follow.
One of these days you'll stop blaming the media and realise the blame lies with Labour. It wasn't the media that ordered the invasion of Iraq.
ReplyDeleteTT - "It wasn't the media that ordered the invasion of Iraq".
ReplyDeleteI wouldn't be so sure about that. Didn't Murdoch and Dacre both meet with Blair in the weeks running up to the invasion. And Murdoch threw his full media empire into getting Bush elected.
jkitleft is right to castigate the agenda of the press. But he does it in a typically tribal Labourite fashion. The media isn't bad because it attacks Labour. It is bad because its ownership promotes a political agenda that suits the interests of the elite. For a long time, Labour was very happy to use that support to promote its own authoritarian right wing agenda. Well if you sleep with rats you are going to get fleas. And by the way, Murdoch did not make Blair do anything that he didn't already want to do. It simply supported his war with jingoistic copy. The fault for the Iraq disaster remains solely with the Labour party for failing to have the guts to stand up to Blair.
ReplyDeleteCan we start with the TV tax, please?
ReplyDeleteNeil,
ReplyDeletethe Iraq and Afghan wars are the defining issues of the Labour government that many waited 18 years for under the tories.
You can go on about some of your tinkering law changes, deny the overtly authoritarian tendencies of your party, blame the media, whatever. As far as this latter goes, you live by the sword, now you're skewered. Labour sold its soul to Mephistopheles, and now he's coming to collect.
Iraq and Afghanistan would have happened under a Tory government - indeed they would have been even more enthusiastic supporters of Bush and will be of McCain if he is elected and invades Iran.
ReplyDeleteBlair made a significant error of judgement, but virtually everyone on the Right (and most of public opinion) supported the initial invasion of both these countries, certainly the main opposition came from the Left and from within the Labour party itself. So don't blame the Left!
Ian: The cost of the BBC is 23% of the total cost of all television services transmitted in the UK. Yet BBC television wins 37% of the total television audience. So the consumer is paying much less per hour for the BBC than for other types of television.
ReplyDeleteNeil,
ReplyDeletethe tories may well have gone along with the wars of George Bush, because there's hardly a gnat's cock between tory and labour governments. That's why I don't support either.
"Blair made a significant error of judgement"
"don't blame the Left!"
Firstly, the left sustained him in power, if through nothing else by their support of the false left/right paradigm, which keeps them loyal to something - the left - which is now no more than a posture - it doesn't merit the term ideology!
Secondly, Blair did not act alone.
Thirdly, this is a matter of the utmost seriousness. The killing of hundreds of thousands of people cannot be swept under the carpet. The mark of Cain is on this government. This is why your party is melting away, bankrupt financially and morally.
TT: As a lot more Labour MPs (139) voted against Iraq than Tory MPs (16) - shouldn't you be supporting Labour not the Tories? The more Tories we get the more gung-ho support of right-wing America and the possible invasion of Iran will follow.
ReplyDelete